Ram Air, functional, or just a cai?
PSSHHH x2
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,291
Likes: 0
by ram air, we are talking about turbo's and blower's and shit right? 
is ram air beneficial? yes. are there different types of ram air? yes. one of the only true functional types of ram air would be like that of an LT1 SS, or WS6. and like tony said, it will become beneficial at a high speed.
has anyone done testing like this on a ws6 or anything? like put it on the dyno, run it just as it is, then put a large fan in front to simulate say 130mph speeds and dyno it again?
is ram air beneficial? yes. are there different types of ram air? yes. one of the only true functional types of ram air would be like that of an LT1 SS, or WS6. and like tony said, it will become beneficial at a high speed.
has anyone done testing like this on a ws6 or anything? like put it on the dyno, run it just as it is, then put a large fan in front to simulate say 130mph speeds and dyno it again?
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
N2O Lover
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Well when I put FTRA on the TA it helped about 2/10's at the strip.
This, of course, could have been from leaning it out due to the Vet fillter and lid. Then again I always do better at the track then the dyno so... I would say it does "something"
Their speal:
This, of course, could have been from leaning it out due to the Vet fillter and lid. Then again I always do better at the track then the dyno so... I would say it does "something"
Their speal:
A typical stock fuel injected motor is rated at about 85 % V.E. This means that out of the 346 cubic inches of air your motor could theoretically take in, only 85 % of that volume enters the cylinders. This translates to about 294 cubic inches of air. Some all out race motors can reach 100 % VE and supercharged or turbocharged motors actually exceed 100 % by forcing the air into the motor. Not everyone can afford a supercharger but there is definately room for improvement for the stock motor if you make it easier for it to get air into the motor for combustion. This is what ram air does.
As speed increases, the air entering through the sealed ram air kit actually becomes pressurized. This positive pressure helps to fill the cylinders more efficiency and raises the VE of the motor. As the VE increases, the motor becomes more efficient and produces more HP and also gives you better fuel economy. You will also find your throttle response dramatically improved. The motor is working less hard to fill the cylinder and is greatly assisted by the high pressure air. The faster your go, the greater the pressurization effect. This is similar to a mild supercharging effect.
The second benefit of a ram air system is that is supplies the engine with colder air than what it would normally breathe. Colder is more dense and contains more oxygen for the combustion process. For every 10 degree drop in intake air temperature, you can expect 1 % more HP. The ram air kit supplies cold air from the bottom of the car which is forced into the sealed air box. Unlike the stock system, the ram air kit does not let the motor breathe superheated air from the engine bay. Additionally, the computer detects this colder air and adds additional ignition timing. This makes more HP!
As speed increases, the air entering through the sealed ram air kit actually becomes pressurized. This positive pressure helps to fill the cylinders more efficiency and raises the VE of the motor. As the VE increases, the motor becomes more efficient and produces more HP and also gives you better fuel economy. You will also find your throttle response dramatically improved. The motor is working less hard to fill the cylinder and is greatly assisted by the high pressure air. The faster your go, the greater the pressurization effect. This is similar to a mild supercharging effect.
The second benefit of a ram air system is that is supplies the engine with colder air than what it would normally breathe. Colder is more dense and contains more oxygen for the combustion process. For every 10 degree drop in intake air temperature, you can expect 1 % more HP. The ram air kit supplies cold air from the bottom of the car which is forced into the sealed air box. Unlike the stock system, the ram air kit does not let the motor breathe superheated air from the engine bay. Additionally, the computer detects this colder air and adds additional ignition timing. This makes more HP!
__________________
Debian Dog
2001 Trans-Am - A4 w/2.73 Steel Driveshaft - Full weight
2004 SRT-4 - MPx, PSI intake
Best Times 1/4
N/A - 12.56@110.51
N2O - 11.43@123.15 100 shot
See My Cars - Listen to the 224/228 closed & open - My Latest Video of Drag Run
Debian Dog
2001 Trans-Am - A4 w/2.73 Steel Driveshaft - Full weight
2004 SRT-4 - MPx, PSI intake
Best Times 1/4
N/A - 12.56@110.51
N2O - 11.43@123.15 100 shot
See My Cars - Listen to the 224/228 closed & open - My Latest Video of Drag Run
Originally posted by moldyhands
Show me an 11 second import that only has a few thousand in it, and I'll show you a car owner that's always talking about when his car's going to get fixed and what broke.
Show me an 11 second import that only has a few thousand in it, and I'll show you a car owner that's always talking about when his car's going to get fixed and what broke.
Last edited by DebianDog; 12-28-2004 at 07:27 AM.
7M 2JZ bird in pear tree
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8,532
Likes: 0
So translated...given you'd get ~ 10HP per 1 psi on most turbo applications...you'd get a *whopping* 1HP?! Pathetic...
But I'm soooo there!!!!
But I'm soooo there!!!!
__________________
ASE: Brakes
Yea..that very well could have been the most retarded idea I've ever heard, but .. do it anyway. -TheShow50h
ASE: Brakes
Yea..that very well could have been the most retarded idea I've ever heard, but .. do it anyway. -TheShow50h
slow
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Ram air.. this is a widely misunderstood concept.
It does not pressurize the intake and create boost. This is why it works on NA cars:
NA cars do not run 100% VE. When you got WOT a perfectly efficient setup would pressurize the intake manifold to 1amotsphere's worth (or roughly 14.7psi). Most motors (sans extremly efficient race motors) do not do this, there is some loss. In most instances the loss is roughly .5psi. Now what ram air does at higher speeds is to increase the efficiency of the motor to help it actually make 1 atmosphere or ~14.696psi in the intake manifold. It is physically impossible at most speeds to create boost beyond 1atm by using ram air. All it does is offset the ~.5psi loss in the intake manifold, to bring it to a true 1ATMs worth, it does not pressurize it.
Reason why it benefits turbo cars: in short, its about respool. Imagine how a turbo-charger works. Hot exhaust gases flow through the turbine section, spinning the turbine wheel which inturn spins the compressor. Now, while this is spinning imagine something pointed at the compressor blades blowing air on to them and helping it spin from that side. Ofcourse, the turbo will spool up faster beacuse now, by helping spin the turbo from the compressor side, you have increased the total amount of energy use to spin the turbo up period. Secondly, anytime you remove a restriction in the intake pre-turbo, you move your operating point on the comrpessor map to a better part of the island. You force cool air into the turbo, you have effecivtly made it operate at a higher efficiency point in the map. Its analagous to the intake manifold help on NA cars.
The second benefit is from the denser air. And this obviously helps both, NA, and FI cars.
Hope this helps.
It does not pressurize the intake and create boost. This is why it works on NA cars:
NA cars do not run 100% VE. When you got WOT a perfectly efficient setup would pressurize the intake manifold to 1amotsphere's worth (or roughly 14.7psi). Most motors (sans extremly efficient race motors) do not do this, there is some loss. In most instances the loss is roughly .5psi. Now what ram air does at higher speeds is to increase the efficiency of the motor to help it actually make 1 atmosphere or ~14.696psi in the intake manifold. It is physically impossible at most speeds to create boost beyond 1atm by using ram air. All it does is offset the ~.5psi loss in the intake manifold, to bring it to a true 1ATMs worth, it does not pressurize it.
Reason why it benefits turbo cars: in short, its about respool. Imagine how a turbo-charger works. Hot exhaust gases flow through the turbine section, spinning the turbine wheel which inturn spins the compressor. Now, while this is spinning imagine something pointed at the compressor blades blowing air on to them and helping it spin from that side. Ofcourse, the turbo will spool up faster beacuse now, by helping spin the turbo from the compressor side, you have increased the total amount of energy use to spin the turbo up period. Secondly, anytime you remove a restriction in the intake pre-turbo, you move your operating point on the comrpessor map to a better part of the island. You force cool air into the turbo, you have effecivtly made it operate at a higher efficiency point in the map. Its analagous to the intake manifold help on NA cars.
The second benefit is from the denser air. And this obviously helps both, NA, and FI cars.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by BOOST JUNKIE; 12-28-2004 at 11:11 AM.
N2O Lover
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Orion ZyGarian
So translated...given you'd get ~ 10HP per 1 psi on most turbo applications...you'd get a *whopping* 1HP?! Pathetic...
So translated...given you'd get ~ 10HP per 1 psi on most turbo applications...you'd get a *whopping* 1HP?! Pathetic...
1% per = 4.55 HP for me
__________________
Debian Dog
2001 Trans-Am - A4 w/2.73 Steel Driveshaft - Full weight
2004 SRT-4 - MPx, PSI intake
Best Times 1/4
N/A - 12.56@110.51
N2O - 11.43@123.15 100 shot
See My Cars - Listen to the 224/228 closed & open - My Latest Video of Drag Run
Debian Dog
2001 Trans-Am - A4 w/2.73 Steel Driveshaft - Full weight
2004 SRT-4 - MPx, PSI intake
Best Times 1/4
N/A - 12.56@110.51
N2O - 11.43@123.15 100 shot
See My Cars - Listen to the 224/228 closed & open - My Latest Video of Drag Run
Originally posted by moldyhands
Show me an 11 second import that only has a few thousand in it, and I'll show you a car owner that's always talking about when his car's going to get fixed and what broke.
Show me an 11 second import that only has a few thousand in it, and I'll show you a car owner that's always talking about when his car's going to get fixed and what broke.
PSSHHH x2
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,291
Likes: 0
-boost junkie....NA cars can and do run over 100% VE believe it or not.
orion - 10hp is such a vague number...there is no real math to it besides actually getting quite in depth. hell, i cam currently makeing 27rwhp per psi. so around 32 at the engine?
orion - 10hp is such a vague number...there is no real math to it besides actually getting quite in depth. hell, i cam currently makeing 27rwhp per psi. so around 32 at the engine?
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
PSSHHH x2
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,291
Likes: 0
yea thats true i should have been more specific aswell. i know the prostock NA motors run at over 100%, more like 110% or so, which i just found out recently, and thought it was pretty damn interesting.
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
