Spyderxl98z24

Mods please sticky !

Clearing Up Confusion



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According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, a supercharger is defined as:
"a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons".
A turbocharger is defined as:
"a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine".


According to Webster's, a turbocharger is included in the definition for superchargers - it is in fact a very specific type of supercharger - one that is driven by exhaust gasses. Other superchargers that do not fall into this category - the kind that we are all used to hearing about - are normally driven directly from the engine's crankshaft via a crank pulley. So in reality, it is not fair to compare all superchargers to turbochargers, because all turbochargers are also superchargers. For the purpose of this discussion, however, a supercharger will be considered all superchargers that are are not driven directly by the engine, while turbochargers will be considered all superchargers that are driven by engine exhaust gasses.

Similarities



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Both superchargers and turbochargers are forced induction systems and thus have the same objective - to compress air and force more air molecules into the engine's combustion chambers than would normally be allowed at atmospheric pressure here on Earth (14.7 psi at sea level). The benefit of forcing more air molecules into the combustion chambers is that it allows your engine to burn more fuel per power stroke. With an internal combustion engine, burning more fuel means that you convert more fuel into energy and power. For this reason, supercharged and turbocharged engines normally produce 40% to 100%+ more power (depending on the amount of boost - check out our horespower calculator) than normally aspirated engines.

How They Work


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A supercharger is mounted to the engine and is driven by a pulley that is inline with the crank (or accessory) belt. Air is drawn into the supercharger and compressed by either an impeller (centrifugal-style supercharger), twin rotating screws (screw-type supercharger), or counter-rotating rotors (roots-type supercharger). The air is then discharged into the engine's intake. Faster crank speed (more engine rpm) spins the supercharger faster and allows the supercharger to produce more boost (normally 6 to 9 psi for a street vehicle). Typical peak operating speeds for a supercharger are around 15,000 rpm (screw-type and roots style superchargers) and 40,000 rpm (centrifugal-style superchargers).

A turbocharger operates in much the same way as a centrifugal (internal impeller) supercharger, except it is not driven by pulleys and belts attached to the engine's crank. A turbo is instead driven by exhaust gasses that have been expelled by the engine and are travelling through the exhaust manifold. The exhaust gas flows through one half of the turbocharger's turbine, which drives the impeller that compresses the air. Typical operating speeds of a turbocharger are between 75,000 and 150,000 rpm.

Head to Head Comparison


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Now it's time to evaluate the turbocharger versus the supercharger according to several important factors.

Cost
The cost of supercharger and a turbocharger systems for the same engine are approximately the same, so cost is generally not a factor.

Lag
This is perhaps the biggest advantage that the supercharger enjoys over the tubo. Because a turbocharger is driven by exhaust gasses, the turbocharger's turbine must first spool up before it even begins to turn the compressor's impeller. This results in lag time which is the time needed for the turbine to reach its full throttle from an intermediate rotational speed state. During this lag time, the turbocharger is creating little to no boost, which means little to no power gains during this time. Smaller turbos spool up quicker, which eliminates some of this lag. Turbochargers thus utilize a wastegate, which allows the use of a smaller turbocharger to reduce lag while preventing it from spinning too quickly at high engine speeds. The wastegate is a valve that allows the exhaust to bypass the turbine blades. The wastegate senses boost pressure, and if it gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down..
A Supercharger, on the other hand, is connected directly to the crank, so there is no "lag". Superchargers are able to produce boost at a very low rpm, especially screw-type and roots type blowers.

Efficiency
This is the turbo's biggest advantage. The turbocharger is generally more economical to operate as it as it is driven primarily by potential energy in the exhaust gasses that would otherwise be lost out the exhaust, whereas a supercharger draws power from the crank, which can be used to turn the wheels. The turbocharger's impeller is also powered only under boost conditions, so there is less parasitic drag while the impeller is not spinning. The turbocharger, however, is not free of inefficiency as it does create additional exhaust backpressure and exhaust flow interruption.

Heat
Because the turbocharger is mounted to the exhaust manifold (which is very hot), turbocharger boost is subject to additional heating via the turbo's hot casing. Because hot air expands (the opposite goal of a turbo or supercharger), an intercooler becomes necessary on almost all turbocharged applications to cool the air charge before it is released into the engine. This increases the complexity of the installation. A centrifugal supercharger on the other hand creates a cooler air discharge, so an intercooler is often not necessary at boost levels below 10psi. That said, some superchargers (especially roots-type superchargers) create hotter discharge temperatures, which also make an intecooler necessary even on fairly low-boost applications.

Surge
Because a turbocharger first spools up before the boost is delivered to the engine, there is a surge of power that is delivered immediately when the wastegate opens (around 3000 rpm). This surge can be damaging to the engine and drivetrain, and can make the vehicle difficult to drive or lose traction.

Back Pressure
Because the supercharger eliminates the need to deal with the exhaust gas interruption created by inserting a turbocharger turbine into the exhaust flow, the supercharger creates no additional exhaust backpressure. The amount of power that is lost by a turbo's turbine reduces it's overall efficiency.

Noise
The turbocharger is generally quiter than the supercharger. Because the turbo's turbine is in the exhaust, the turbo can substantially reduce exhaust noise, making the engine run quieter. Some centrifugal superchargers are known to be noisy and whistley which, annoys some drivers (we, however, love it!)

Reliability
In general, superchargers enjoy a substantial reliability advantage over the turbocharger. When a a turbo is shut off (i.e. when the engine is turned off), residual oil inside the turbo's bearings can be baked by stored engine heat. This, combined with the turbo's extremely high rpms (up to 150,000rpm) can cause problems with the turbo's internal bearings and can shorten the life of the turbocharger. In addition, many turbos require aftermarket exhaust manifolds, which are often far less reliable than stock manifolds.

Ease of Installation
Superchargers are substantially easier to install than a turbos because they have far fewer components and simpler devices. Turbos are complex and require manifold and exhaust modifications, intercoolers, extra oil lines, etc. - most of which is not needed with most superchargers. A novice home mechanic can easily install most supercharger systems, while a turbo installation should be left to a turbo expert.

Maximum Power Output
Turbos are known for their unique ability to spin to incredibly high rpms and make outrages peak boost figures (25psi+). While operating a turbocharger at very high levels of boost requires major modifications to the rest of the engine, the turbo is capable of producing more peak power than superchargers.

Tunability
Turbochargers, because they are so complex and rely on exhaust pressure, are notoriously difficult to tune. Superchargers, on the other hand, require few fuel and ignition upgrades and normally require little or no engine tuning.

Vito_Corleone

No sticky, put it in the FAQ.

Spyderxl98z24

No the supercharger was for planes at high altitudes it was a cintrifugal SC for high flying plans rolls rouse developed them and the US army adopted them for their diesal trucks that starved for air. Later on Turbos a form of SC was adopted into fighter airplanes in WWII Hince Turbo Props and SC's Superchargers have about 6 types of Designs, Roots, Axial, Vane, Screw, Rotary and cintrifugal.

Roots, Screw = Most Common Superchargers for cars known as SC's

Cintrifugal = "Turbo" Depends on the Drive mechanism Exhaust driven is a Turbo and a Belt or Gear driven is a SC

Rotary= The only kind is a Wankle a Wankle rotary basicly is a SC in respects.


Axial= Most common in Jet engine designs same concept but a Turbo Prop Jet is a HUGE SC that foirces air into the burner that mixes with the fuel Just like in WWII Pulse Rockets.

Vanes = Air Tools !!!! How do you think they are driven !! By a Vain SuperCharger ! it supercharges the already compressed air to drive a shaft that powers the tool !

So cronic Yes its correct a Turbo is a SC but its also a Turbo. The Turbo part of a Turbocharger is this. Its a Supefcharger driven by a turbine ! Without the turbine there is no Turbocharger ! Its a Cintrifugal Supercharger But its a sub-class of SC Just like a Turbo Jet. The part of Turbocharger became short for TurbineSupercharger, shorthanded to TURBOCHARGER which just is a Cintrifugal design Supercharger ! Does that help im a lil tired so it might be choppy !

Spyderxl98z24

History !!

Forced induction was devised within a few years of the invention of the internal combustion engine, and actually predates the advent of automobiles. Gottlieb Daimler received a German patent for supercharging in 1885, specifying an external fan, pump, or compressor to push the increased air into the engine.

In 1908 Lee Chadwick in Pottstown, Pennsylvania built a supercharged Vanderbilt Cup racer, which ran at 100 mph, using a fan driven by a leather belt to spin at five times crankshaft speed. Louis Renault had patented this centrifugal supercharger concept in France in 1902.

Another Frenchman, Auguste Rateau, in 1916 tested turbocharging an aircraft, and in 1918 General Electric produced a gain in horsepower with a turbocharged Liberty aircraft engine on the top of Pike's Peak - delivering 356 hp at high altitude compared with the engine's stock output at sea level of 346 hp, which formerly would drop to 222 hp at this altitude.

The pump was already there
The principles of positive displacement had long before been turned into working pumps by the Roots brothers, beginning in 1859 to develop a better water wheel, and discovering instead a very effective air mover. They formed the Roots Blower Company, but the name is used generically to describe the positive displacement type of blower. The blower has since been used for deep mine ventilation, pneumatic carrying systems, and countless industrial applications including refrigeration and air conditioning.

During the early twenties Mercedes innovatively developed a Roots type blower instead of the earlier centrifugal compressors. Over the next two decades interest was intense in both turbocharging and supercharging, in America and Europe, and across several industries. By World War II almost all military aircraft intended for high altitudes were supercharged.

Twin screw invented
Also in this period, in 1936 the twin screw air compressor was invented by Alf Lysholm, Chief Engineer of Svenska Rotor Maskiner AB (SRM), which obtained the patent it still holds. Existing technology did not permit the use of this compressor in supercharging until much later however.

After the war in America, interest in charging languished, and the desire for automotive power was satisfied by bigger engines with newer engineering, although the europeans maintained their interest.

In the sixties, with the proliferation of muscle cars, interest in charging resurged, and from that time on, particularly as emissions requirements have intensified and the demand has evolved for fuel efficiency, driveability, and smaller, more efficient engines, forced induction has developed increased importance, along with technological advances in bearings and lubrication, fuel injection and electronic engine controls.

The twin screw arrives in America
Finally, in 1988, Art Whipple of Whipple Industries brought the twin screw compressor to America from Sweden and developed it for supercharging. The astounding results are covered more fully in our Whipple section.

SRM as mentioned has continued throughout to hold the patent on the twin screw design, and licenses its use all over the world to many different manufacturers for a variety of purposes, including gas processing and refrigeration.
[A list of licensees globally may be found at the SRM website here]

But since the 1960s the twin screw's primary application has been to compress air, it is recognized as a superior design for this purpose, and founded on the same positive displacement principles that made the Roots blower such a good air mover.

It is not yet clear how much of the market or future supercharging development the twin screw technology will dominate. We can say that here in 2003, supercharging as a whole is a vibrant and growing industry.

Spyderxl98z24

The turbocharger was designed for aircraft as a TurboProp driven by the exhaust gases ! By non other than Mr garret himself !!


The first exhaust-driven supercharger was developed by Dr. Alfred J. Buchi of Switzerland between 1909 and 1912, long before Garrett products entered the turbocharger picture. Dr. Buchi was Chief Engineer of Sulzer Brothers Research Department and in 1915 proposed the first prototype of a turbocharged diesel engine, but his ideas gained little or no acceptance at that time.



General Electric began developing turbochargers during the late 1910's. In 1920, a LePere bi-plane that was equipped with a Liberty engine and a General Electric turbocharger set a new altitude record of 33,113 feet (10092m).

Turbochargers were used sparingly on aircraft in World War I, but their development occurred on a widening scale in the 1930's and 1940's - first in Europe and then in the United States. In the United States, General Electric developed turbochargers for military aircraft, and in World War II, thousands were used on fighter aircraft and bombers, such as the B-17. The Garrett Corporation, formed in 1936 by J. C. "Cliff" Garrett, supplied the charge air cooler (aftercooler) for the B-17, located between the General Electric turbocharger and the Pratt and Whitney engine.

In the late 1940's and early 1950's, Garrett was heavily committed to the design of small gas turbine engines from 20 - 90 horse power (15 - 67 kw). The engineers had developed a good background in the metallurgy of housings, high speed seals, radial inflow turbines, and centrifugal compressors.

On September 27, 1954, Cliff Garrett made the decision to separate the turbocharger group from the Gas Turbine department due to commercial diesel turbocharger opportunities. That was the beginning of the new AiResearch Industrial Division - for turbocharger design and manufacturing. AiResearch Industrial Division would later be named Garrett Automotive.

Spyderxl98z24

1885= Supercharging
1909= Turbochargers from Supercharger research !

So Cronic What was first the chicken or the egg ?

InsaneCivicCoupe

Too much to read at 4 0'clock in the fuckin morning... And you should have put this in power adders.....

4dorteg

WOW!!!!!!!! Thats alot of typing!

Spyderxl98z24

Take the time and read it It clears up all the misconseption of trbos and superchargers ! And The TurboCharger was made for war !! How niffty imsurprised the japs didnt design them !! I do know that The Japanese Zero Fighters were Built by Mitsubishi In WWII and they also had TurboProp Engines Built By Garret So its funny how both sides used the same technology and Mitsubishi has imporved on garretts design to create its own Mitsubishi Turbos ! So thats Why the Two Major Turbine Supercharger Compnies are mitsubishi and Garret Air Research. Both spawns of war and inovation to be the better fighter.

Daimler started and garret are the first to try them on cars as actual power adders and then mitsu sold their design To many Car manufacturers ie, Toyota,Isuzu,Nissan but it was Datsun back then, Then Daimler Sold his Design to the european market like BMW,Alfa Romeao, Mercedes, Porcshe which used to Be owned By Rolls Rouse which also owned BMW, Then Lambo used them for a short period when they were owned By Audi. And the only reason we carried turbos into america was our American Counterparts of daimlers Japanese Domestic Vehicles, and some trucks.

Ok im done now no more history for today class !